［求翻译］太极班同学的英文诗两首
本帖最后由 山菊 于 2016-3-3 14:28 编辑Tracks
The tracks are a lonely place.
From dawn to dusk
our gilded master bids us remain silent.
We exist to serve the day.
But, at night,
the rails sing songs-not
symphonies,
but harmonia with the glory of natural law;
nor duets,
but a chorus of all that has been
and all yet to be-a
nocturne so beautiful
that even God, Himself,
pauses to listen.
Master's heralds make
us long for nightfall.
The tracks are a lonely place.
Loneliness is longing for kind.
小径
小径长寂寞，黎明到黄昏。
上帝吩咐安静，人为日子奔。
但等夜幕降，小径把歌唱。
不属交响乐，谐美天籁声。
亦无二重奏，和音发自众生灵。
夜曲感心动，上帝倾耳听。
闻主发欢声，众生盼夜临。
小径寂寞长，孤独成向往。
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Lazarus at the Mall
I saw my old lover at the mall yesterday. She was not the mousy girl I discarded so casually.
From the crypt of my boredom a radiant bird on the wing spoke to the power of the magician.
But it was not the lack of fifty pounds or forty years; the trick was in the dove and in the vision to set it free.
As I cowered behind a column, pummeled by their easy laughter, I understood why Jesus wept.
商场里的拉撒路
旧时老情人，昨日商场遇。
当年黄毛小丫头，弃之我未惜。
无聊心痒处，有鸟张凤翥。
魔术何由来，欲与法师语。
魔力非神仙，非减赘肉五十磅，亦非穿越四十年。
魔法在鸽心，由心出双眼：自由大于天。
蜷缩墙柱后，一任嬉笑宰。
顿时心明白：耶稣洒泪实无奈。
上次那首好像对作者本意有不同理解？你问过作者美？ 仁 发表于 2016-2-29 21:34
上次那首好像对作者本意有不同理解？你问过作者美？
问过啦，他说仁师的理解是对的！{:222:}
这两个呢，给翻一下吧？还有77@齐若散
我本来想翻一个，但音乐词汇不懂的说：harmonia 咋翻啊？ 本帖最后由 仁 于 2016-3-2 10:45 编辑
山菊 发表于 2016-3-2 03:34
问过啦，他说仁师的理解是对的！
这两个呢，给翻一下吧？还有77@齐若散
力所不逮啊。harmonia 会不会是harmonic之误？那样就是说，所唱不是交响，只是和声；不是二重唱而是合唱 本帖最后由 山菊 于 2016-3-2 14:20 编辑
从曲解到歪翻
我只看了第一首，不敢说看懂了，但并不妨碍欣赏。从track和rail出发，我是按废弃铁轨-寂寞-天籁的后工业化的意象来理解的。估计和作者的思路相去甚远，但诗入我眼，与作者无关，这个意象挺有意思的，这里就曲解一下吧。
这首诗我觉得和陆游的《卜算子 咏梅》有神似之处。这首诗里称颂的是明示的耶和华，卜算子里把赏梅的作者代入为梅花，所得的解就是一位暗藏的能够欣赏作者的上帝之子。这种含蓄，很有味。
我从初中时走入基督到最后走出，前后二十年时间，这段小小的心路历程，让我感觉自己能更好地欣赏中国文化和西方文化。对西方诗歌的仿古翻译，是我向两座文化宝库致敬的笨拙方式。
这里是曲解之后的歪翻之作，只能说是尽量去表达我所理解的作者思想。兴之所至，估计韵脚有问题，但就这样了吧。
卜算子-驿路。
驿道肃然荒，晨昏寂无语。
锈轨夜来唱且吟，万籁天和曲。
此律古同今，上而连广宇。
孤者莫非大德乎，其必有邻欤？
Tracks
The tracks are a lonely place.
From dawn to dusk
our gilded master bids us remain silent.
We exist to serve the day.
But, at night,
the rails sing songs-not
symphonies,
but harmonia with the glory of natural law;
nor duets,
but a chorus of all that has been
and all yet to be-a
nocturne so beautiful
that even God, Himself,
pauses to listen.
Master's heralds make
us long for nightfall.
The tracks are a lonely place.
Loneliness is longing for kind.
下面是陆游的《卜算子 咏梅》
驿外断桥边，寂寞开无主。
已是黄昏独自愁，更著风和雨。
无意苦争春，一任群芳妒。
零落成泥辗作尘，只有香如故。
注：《论语-里仁》“德不孤，必有邻”。“德”和“孤”在中国传统语境中，是分立的。但在我理解的基督教语境下，孤独是永恒的，是耶和华因其自在永在，自有永有的属性。孤独和夜，在这首诗里，是高度统一的；在夜里能够暂时放下尘世中作为一颗螺钉活着的责任，全心思考宗教；而通过孤独能够体会到耶和华的神性。一条荒废的铁轨，所谓夜里的歌声就是无声，是孤独的声音，是自有永有的声音。对最后一句“Loneliness is longing for kind. ”我的理解就是Loneliness =holiness。作为从基督思想中走出来的中国人，我觉得这句话拿来作为“德不孤，必有邻”的反注脚很有意思。如果孤独是最大的美德，那么与夜为邻，就是最好的归宿了。其实我更喜欢中国文化里那种“昼短苦夜长，何不秉烛游”的乐观进取，这也是我走出来的原因之一。
仁 发表于 2016-3-1 20:20
力所不逮啊。harmonia 会不会是harmonic之误？那样就是说，所唱不是交响，只是和声；不是二重唱而是合唱 ...
只查到德国有个三人乐队叫这个名，不知道是不是~~~
石工 发表于 2016-3-1 23:04
从曲解到歪翻
我只看了第一首，不敢说看懂了，但并不妨碍欣赏。从track和rail出发，我是按废弃铁轨-寂寞- ...
很棒的解读，赞一个！{:222:}
昨晚我想了一下，对音乐术语不熟悉，直译有困难。所以就凑合来了个'伪古风'~~~马上放到主楼，等大家提个意见再改。
第二首也很有意思，好象有典故~~~你熟悉圣经，看看能否解读？ 山菊 发表于 2016-3-3 02:57
很棒的解读，赞一个！
昨晚我想了一下，对音乐术语不熟悉，直译有困难。所以就凑合来了个'伪古风 ...
把曲解进行到底。
第二首的解读关键就是标题。Lazarus中文译作拉撒路（新教）或者拉匝禄（天主教），是一个很重要的人物。耶稣让他起死回生，因此引得更多人皈依基督，却让祭司们因此担忧罗马人会借此发难，将犹太人灭族，故此在会上决定处死耶稣，以免亡国灭族的命运。在拉撒路的亲人请求耶稣施展神迹的时候，耶稣落泪。在《耶经》中没有交代他为何落泪，我是从中国传统的悲天悯人的角度去解读，明知救他人一命，会最终带来自己的杀身之祸，也赴汤蹈火，在所不辞。这眼泪，不是为拉撒路的去世或者自己未来的厄运而流，却是为苍生愚顽而流。虽愚顽不化，而能拯救，正是大慈大悲。拉撒路的故事在《耶经 新曰》约翰福音即若望福音第十一章，他的故事是从第一节到第44节，但要理解整个故事，一定要把整章57节读完。
具体到这首诗，我愿意把它当做文学创作来对待，不想去求证是不是在四十年前有那么一位体重五十磅的小姑娘，和在四十年后的集市上，有只快乐的小鸟。诗名译为《陌上偶得》，陌取“市中街道”之意，偶得则寓意拉撒路和耶稣的关系，他能起死回生，对芸芸众生来说是可遇不可求的偶然，对救苦救难的人子来说，则是必然要做的。我等皆凡人，对耶稣只有高山仰止的份，所以用“偶得”为题。
陌上偶得 Lazarus at the Mall
昨日入集市， I saw my old lover
旧爱在坊前。 at the mall yesterday.
不复当年涩， She was not the mousy girl
离乱竟翩然。 I discarded so casually.
化羽为辉鸟， From the crypt of my boredom
我心决忧烦。 a radiant bird on the wing
扶摇通天语， spoke to the power
振翅返人间。 of the magician.
一瘦半百斤， But it was not the lack
一别四十年。 of fifty pounds or forty years;
君形寄鸽子， the trick was in the dove
谁其能释然。 and in the vision to set it free.
藏影虽有柱， As I cowered behind a column,
啁啾椎心田。 pummeled by their easy laughter,
何意人子泪， I understood why
如今我亦弹。 JESUS WEPT.
山菊 发表于 2016-3-3 02:50
只查到德国有个三人乐队叫这个名，不知道是不是~~~
你看它是小写，不会是乐队。harmonia是harmonic以及harmony的词源。 你的“小径”是正解。我就是忍不住和陆游的咏梅相比较，觉得“驿路”也通，下面这个场景很符合诗中意境:
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRH_vinnxl1xikqvOOF1Ck6bsFHNBIT5FllM0NryULehDizXWs0qA
我用《耶经-新曰》而不用《圣经-新约》，是出于中国传统文化本位和对基督文明的尊敬。耶经称谓，合乎经典命名惯例，把外来经典和本土经典等量齐观，并无对耶稣和基督教的失敬。以“曰”代“约”，因华夏受命于天，有经自泰西来，置于“子曰”之侧，不可谓不郑重。 刚看到你的翻译。我觉得你应该让作者用日常语言给讲一遍，明白后再译。既然他让你翻译，自然愿意那么做。 仁 发表于 2016-3-1 20:20
力所不逮啊。harmonia 会不会是harmonic之误？那样就是说，所唱不是交响，只是和声；不是二重唱而是合唱 ...
问啦，昨晚回答说是：'harmonia is a made up word for harmonies.'
还问了几个关于第二首的问题，他还没回答。我只好先按自己的理解能力瞎掰了一个，刚才放在主楼了{:191:}
本帖最后由 山菊 于 2016-3-3 14:38 编辑
石工 发表于 2016-3-2 22:12
把曲解进行到底。
第二首的解读关键就是标题。Lazarus中文译作拉撒路（新教）或者拉匝禄（天主教），是 ...
太棒了，比偶译得好{:222:}
尤其喜欢这段：
一瘦半百斤， But it was not the lack
一别四十年。 of fifty pounds or forty years;
君形寄鸽子， the trick was in the dove
谁其能释然。 and in the vision to set it free.
当年黄毛小丫头，弃之我未惜。
这一句和愿意正相反。按字面理解，原作者说的是那个女孩并不是他随意放弃的。看后面的，也许还相反呢。
你对后面的理解挺好的。原作者说的是他并不是要消除四十年的痕迹和五十磅的赘肉（而回到从前），而是要得到平和。 可不可以问作者这些：
1）Track应该是铁轨，后面的rails也支持。
2）gilded master 和 后面的Master是不是所指相同？和中间的God是相同的吗？我觉得gilded master说的是太阳。
3）serve the day 觉费解。我先想到白天载火车。但似乎在火车时才唱歌。也就是白天什么都不干啊。 仁 发表于 2016-3-4 09:29
可不可以问作者这些：
1）Track应该是铁轨，后面的rails也支持。
Here comes the answers:
For the first poem:
'Tracks' is about the night time gathering of fireflies near the railroad tracks of my boyhood home.
Fireflies love railroad tracks but they only appear at dusk.
The 'gilded master' is the sun. 'Master's heralds' are the birds.
When the tracks are heating up, they are quiet. But as they cool, they make a variety of interesting noises. It doesn't take a a lot of imagination to hear them singing or to see the fireflies as dancing.
As in all things, the lonely congregate together. But only common understanding grants solace.
That is why sitting in the midst of a gathering of fireflies is very comforting. They are a lot like poets.
It occurs to me that it would be better to change the name of this poem to
'Fireflies'.
Thank you for your interest.
莹火虫的舞会is a better name.
Change this line:
'We exist to serve the day.'
to
'They exist to serve the day.'
That should make the meaning clearer.
I promise to leave you alone now.
仁 发表于 2016-3-4 09:29
可不可以问作者这些：
1）Track应该是铁轨，后面的rails也支持。
And the second one:
I realized after I sent you 'Lazarus at the mall' that it is a little difficult to understand particularly if one is not familiar with American slang.
Here is what the poem describes:
A man in his 60's and overweight by 20 kilos sees a young woman in the mall who was once attracted to him. She was shy and timid and frightened of him and he became bored with her and told her to go away.
But when he sees her now, she is very different--happy, confident, beaming, radiant---because she is with her new lover.
Seeing her, the man realizes that, in effect, he killed her spirit and that she has been brought back to life by her new lover and that he could have had the same if only he had realized that all he needed to do was set her free.
The couple does not see him because he is hiding behind a column. The woman is so happy that her voice sounds like birdsong.They are walking and talking and their laughter is painful to him as though he is being beaten.
The word, 'spoke', has two meanings there--one is the image of the bird singing, the other is to dramatically illustrate. For example, your tai qi speaks to master's skill as a teacher.
'lack of' means that the young woman came back to life not because her new lover was young and thin, unlike the old man, but because he let her be free.
The reference to 'Jesus wept' is from the Bible. It is the story of Lazarus. He died because Jesus was absorbed in his ministry and did not come when Lazarus's sisters asked him to. When he did come and saw Lazarus's dead face, he realized he was responsible and he wept.
仁 发表于 2016-3-4 09:29
可不可以问作者这些：
1）Track应该是铁轨，后面的rails也支持。
And the second one:
I realized after I sent you 'Lazarus at the mall' that it is a little difficult to understand particularly if one is not familiar with American slang.
Here is what the poem describes:
A man in his 60's and overweight by 20 kilos sees a young woman in the mall who was once attracted to him. She was shy and timid and frightened of him and he became bored with her and told her to go away.
But when he sees her now, she is very different--happy, confident, beaming, radiant---because she is with her new lover.
Seeing her, the man realizes that, in effect, he killed her spirit and that she has been brought back to life by her new lover and that he could have had the same if only he had realized that all he needed to do was set her free.
The couple does not see him because he is hiding behind a column. The woman is so happy that her voice sounds like birdsong.They are walking and talking and their laughter is painful to him as though he is being beaten.
The word, 'spoke', has two meanings there--one is the image of the bird singing, the other is to dramatically illustrate. For example, your tai qi speaks to master's skill as a teacher.
'lack of' means that the young woman came back to life not because her new lover was young and thin, unlike the old man, but because he let her be free.
The reference to 'Jesus wept' is from the Bible. It is the story of Lazarus. He died because Jesus was absorbed in his ministry and did not come when Lazarus's sisters asked him to. When he did come and saw Lazarus's dead face, he realized he was responsible and he wept.
本帖最后由 仁 于 2016-3-5 09:21 编辑
看原作者的解释受益很多，谢谢！就说'Jesus wept'吧，我对基督落泪的理解就跟他不同。我对she was not the mousy girl I discarded so casually的理解也不对，虽然语法上没错。这就是英语有歧义的例子。按他的意思，用no longer替换not就不会理解错了。
第二首用Master's heralds指鸟因为前面的master就费解了。再明确些就好了。 本帖最后由 鹤梦白云上 于 2016-3-5 22:29 编辑
山菊 发表于 2016-3-5 00:04
Here comes the answers:
For the first poem:
作者给出的解释可以帮助理解，但是永远不要为作者的自解所限，因为一个作者自己也永远无法给出完全彻底的解释，在很多情况下，作者并不愿意把话说明、说透。比如，当有人问艾略特“当三只白色的豹子坐在一棵桧树下，在白天凉爽的空气里吃得心满意足”是什么意思，艾略特回答：”意思是‘当三只白色的豹子坐在一棵桧树下，在白天凉爽的空气里吃得心满意足’“。这倒也不完全是艾略特喜欢故弄玄虚，而是因为对于诗歌的一种特定的解释，往往是一种对诗意的局限，好诗的诗意往往是开放性的。
《铁道》的作者耍了一个魔法，原来他说的是萤火虫，但是，他难道真的就为了“描写”萤火虫吗？就为了说“表达”孤独和喜聚吗？如果是这样，就无法解释诗中第二段有何用意。实际上此诗意象有两个，一个是铁道／铁轨，另一个才是萤火虫，但是原诗并没有点出萤火虫，所以原本也不必非得联想到萤火虫，萤火虫无非是自比。此诗真正的意象其实是铁道，这就是为什么作者取名《Tracks》的原因。当读者询问诗意时，作者出于种种原因，冲这个读者，作者给出一个萤火虫的解释，那么冲另一个读者，作者也可能给出另一个解释。
一个“涉诗不深”的人，或者说一个“涉世不深”的人，对于诗歌的理解，往往认为，诗，比如萤火诗，就是为了充分、细致、生动、甚至“美丽”地描写出萤火的种种状态，合律、押韵，然而一个真正的诗人，写萤火并非为了写萤火本身，而是为了写作者自身。是借萤火而写自我。韦应物、杜甫、谢脁、庾信如此（一如我在《韦诗会通》2.2节所言），这位美国的诗人也是如此。因为《铁道》一诗是否需点出萤火，也并不必要，原标题更好。
以下是一点个人解读：
gilded master：读上去肯定不觉得是指上帝，Master在句中首字母大写时，的确可指上帝，但在诗中作“上帝”理解非常勉强。作者指出是指太阳，这个倒也并非无稽。莎士比亚的十四行诗至少有两处对太阳的指称用到了“金”字。一处是18号作品“And often is his gold complexion dimm'd”，一处是33号作品“Kissing with golden face the meadows green”。
然而莎士比亚用的词是“gold/golden”，这和“gilded”还并不完全一样。我读到“gilded master”并没有想到太阳，而是想到了“gilded age”。 马克·吐温的《镀金时代》英文是《Gilded Age》,而不是《Golden Age》,golden age指“黄金时代”，主要立足于赞美，gilded age指镀金时代，立足点就比较复杂了，意味是很有所不同的。
gilded master ＝ gilded age?
gilded master 可译作“镀金的主宰”，当我们面对自身的存在，询问“我们存在的主宰”为何？有人会说：我的命运掌握在我自己手里，我自己是我自己的主宰。但也有很多人会给出其它答案。估计就有人会说：我们真正的主宰是这个时代，这个镀金的时代。
这个“镀金的主宰”命令我们沉默，不允许我们发出自己真正内心的声音，使得我们的存在时为了“serve the day”。"serve the day"的意思颇耐人寻味，习语中有“serve the hour”，“serve the time”。serve和master对应，serve the day似指day是诗中“我们”的master，day，不只指白天，复数还有“时期／时代”之意，所以：
serve the day = serve the age
gilded master = gilded age
Master's heralds，主人的传令官，作者说指鸟，这是在某种层面上说的，在另一种层面上，另有其象征意义，也可以指某种人，也可以指某种物，某种思想、意识、主义，或者其它你能想到的。
铁道是一种“道”，道，在《老子》中已具有某种形而上的意义，然而道原本的意义是“路”，是一种“历程”，这当然可以代表一个人一生所走过的道路，代表着“存在”，象征“我们”的“存在”，人们在这样的时代，这种镀金时代，处于一种“燥热”的存在状态之中，是被奴役的状态，是艾略特所谓的空心人，是沉默者。
1 我们是空心人
2 我们是被填充的人
3 彼此倚靠在一起
4 头颅里塞满了稻草。可悲啊！
5 当我们在一起低语
6 我们干哑的嗓音
7 无声也毫无意义
艾略特眼中的现代人，低语而嗓音干哑，“无声也毫无意义”。
铁轨白天被太阳烤热，晚间冷却时，是有可能发出奇妙声音的。另一个常见例子是长时间开车后停下来，也能听见底盘发出冷却的声音，格崩格崩的。当“我们”如同铁轨那样“冷却”下来时，我们的心静下来时，我们就有可能听到自己真正的声音，这种声音上穷碧落下黄泉，与天地古今一体，但这种体悟只有少数人才有，也有人只有在特定的状态下才有。这种人在现代社会中往往是孤独者，他们在内心渴望遇到“同道”。
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