马来西亚称MH17 被空对空导弹击中
马来西亚称MH17 被空对空导弹击中， 乌克兰政府与此有关
http://www.nst.com.my/node/20925
US analysts conclude MH17 downed by aircraft
By Haris Hussain - 7 August 2014 @ 8:20 AM
KUALA LUMPUR: INTELLIGENCE analysts in the United States had already concluded that Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 was shot down by an air-to-air missile, and that the Ukrainian government had had something to do with it.
This corroborates an emerging theory postulated by local investigators that the Boeing 777-200 was crippled by an air-to-air missile and finished off with cannon fire from a fighter that had been shadowing it as it plummeted to earth.
In a damning report dated Aug 3, headlined “Flight 17 Shoot-Down Scenario Shifts”, Associated Press reporter Robert Parry said “some US intelligence sources had concluded that the rebels and Russia were likely not at fault and that it appears Ukrainian government forces were to blame”.
This new revelation was posted on GlobalResearch, an independent research and media organisation.
In a statement released by the Ukrainian embassy on Tuesday, Kiev denied that its fighters were airborne during the time MH17 was shot down. This follows a statement released by the Russian Defence Ministry that its air traffic control had detected Ukrainian Air Force activity in the area on the same day.
They also denied all allegations made by the Russian government and said the country’s core interest was in ensuring an immediate, comprehensive, transparent and unbiased international investigation into the tragedy by establishing a state commission comprising experts from the International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO) and Eurocontrol.
“We have evidence that the plane was downed by Russian-backed terrorist with a BUK-M1 SAM system (North Atlantic Treaty Organisation reporting name SA-11) which, together with the crew, had been supplied from Russia. This was all confirmed by our intelligence, intercepted telephone conversations of the terrorists and satellite pictures.
“At the same time, the Ukrainian Armed Forces have never used any anti-aircraft missiles since the anti-terrorist operations started in early April,” the statement read.
Yesterday, the New Straits Times quoted experts who had said that photographs of the blast fragmentation patterns on the fuselage of the airliner showed two distinct shapes — the shredding pattern associated with a warhead packed with “flechettes”, and the more uniform, round-type penetration holes consistent with that of cannon rounds.
Parry’s conclusion also stemmed from the fact that despite assertions from the Obama administration, there has not been a shred of tangible evidence to support the conclusion that Russia supplied the rebels with the BUK-M1 anti-aircraft missile system that would be needed to hit a civilian jetliner flying at 33,000 feet.
Parry also cited a July 29 Canadian Broadcasting Corporation interview with Michael Bociurkiw, one of the first Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) investigators to arrive at the scene of the disaster, near Donetsk.
Bociurkiw is a Ukrainian-Canadian monitor with OSCE who, along with another colleague, were the first international monitors to reach the wreckage after flight MH17 was brought down over eastern Ukraine.
In the CBC interview, the reporter in the video preceded it with: “The wreckage was still smouldering when a small team from the OSCE got there. No other officials arrived for days”.
“There have been two or three pieces of fuselage that have been really pockmarked with what almost looks like machinegun fire; very, very strong machinegun fire,” Bociurkiw said in the interview.
Parry had said that Bociurkiw’s testimony is “as close to virgin, untouched evidence and testimony as we’ll ever get. Unlike a black-box interpretation-analysis long afterward by the Russian, British or Ukrainian governments, each of which has a horse in this race, this testimony from Bociurkiw is raw, independent and comes from one of the two earliest witnesses to the physical evidence.
“That’s powerfully authoritative testimony. Bociurkiw arrived there fast because he negotiated with the locals for the rest of the OSCE team, who were organising to come later,” Parry had said.
Retired Lufthansa pilot Peter Haisenko had also weighed in on the new shootdown theory with Parry and pointed to the entry and exit holes centred around the cockpit.
“You can see the entry and exit holes. The edge of a portion of the holes is bent inwards. These are the smaller holes, round and clean, showing the entry points most likely that of a 30mm caliber projectile.
“The edge of the other, the larger and slightly frayed exit holes, show shreds of metal pointing produced by the same caliber projectiles. Moreover, it is evident that these exit holes of the outer layer of the double aluminum reinforced structure are shredded or bent — outwardly.”
He deduced that in order to have some of those holes fraying inwardly, and the others fraying outwardly, there had to have been a second fighter firing into the cockpit from the airliner’s starboard side. This is critical, as no surface-fired missile (or shrapnel) hitting the airliner could possibly punch holes into the cockpit from both sides of the plane.
“It had to have been a hail of bullets from both sides that brought the plane down. This is Haisenko’s main discovery. You can’t have projectiles going in both directions — into the left-hand-side fuselage panel from both its left and right sides — unless they are coming at the panel from different directions.
“Nobody before Haisenko had noticed that the projectiles had ripped through that panel from both its left side and its right side. This is what rules out any ground-fired missile,” Parry had said.
@holycow
本帖最后由 一身轻松 于 2014-8-7 17:14 编辑
别召唤圣牛了，国内已经有这个消息了
马来西亚的结论根据，就是你前个帖子里发的那个欧安会调查人员的“象是被重机枪扫射过一样”
顺便Su-25不能携带弹头重量超过9公斤的空空导弹， 这种导弹根本不足以对777造成瞬间毁灭的效果
总之，黑匣子肯定有时间记录发生的事情 卧槽，这是神马节奏？ silentdarkness 发表于 2014-8-7 18:34 static/image/common/back.gif
卧槽，这是神马节奏？
马航的东西可信度不高吧 这是个对普京很有利的信息！我也不想普京就这么蔫下去，最起码要和老美再缠斗几个回合 哇，彻底变成选边站的事了，真相恐怕永远没人知道了。 code_abc 发表于 2014-8-7 19:36 static/image/common/back.gif
马航的东西可信度不高吧
从来没可信过{:204:} 空对空导弹击中，这只能是一场谋杀了 有可能会越搞越大。 为什么不提黑盒子？这只是不完全证明了乌克兰可能有关系，但不公开黑盒子使人极大怀疑还是乌克兰有关。但最后确定应该是结合黑盒子资料。 本帖最后由 南京老萝卜 于 2014-8-8 13:55 编辑
这篇文章没有说空空导弹有什么证据。
关于被30毫米机枪击落的证据是机身两边的弹孔。这个弹孔小的有内卷，大的有外翻，两边都有两种弹孔，子弹既有左边进右边出的，也有右边进左边出的。也就是说有两架飞机攻击。
但是第二段和后面有个矛盾。第二段说：the Boeing 777-200 was crippled by an air-to-air missile and finished off with cannon fire from a fighter that had been shadowing it as it plummeted to earth. 空空导弹打得它失去动力（cripple ?），最终从“一架战斗机"的cannon(机枪？) 发射的子弹把它打下来。
我觉得有个东西我很疑惑，到底是我翻译的不行还是缺乏知识。空空导弹打残（cripple）一架飞机，还有什么必要再给它来一梭子？它肯定掉下来啊。不像军舰，还可以漂。
倒数第三段：He deduced that ...... there had to have been a second fighter firing into the cockpit from the airliner’s starboard side. 他得出结论，必须得有另一架飞机，从飞机的starboard(不知道是啥)那边向驾驶舱射击。
那么这篇文章的结论，到底是一架战斗机，还是两架战斗机？
这篇文章的结论我觉得是匪夷所思。假如真的是战斗机把马航打下来，那100%是乌克兰干的。问题是乌克兰是处心积虑一定要把这架飞机打下来干嘛？乌克兰疯了吗？打这个民航机对乌克兰有什么好处呢？他的动机是什么？难道真的把它误认为是普金的座机？ 难道真的以为是普京的座机？ leekai 发表于 2014-8-8 16:14 static/image/common/back.gif
难道真的以为是普京的座机？
馬航的飛機和俄羅斯的真是有點像。
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